Personally I think something like that would be a decision like any medical decision, ultimately left up to the one going through the procedure. That being said, my wife of 23 years and I actually talked over the issue 17 years ago and though she was still in grad school (PharmD now) we decided to go ahead and start a family.
I never said this to my wife, but had she simply had an abortion without consulting me at all, I would have left her, no doubt in my mind. Not due to any opposition to abortion on my part. I understand the ramifications of unplanned parenthood. Two of my sisters had unplanned babies in the 70's they had a hard way to go.
But if my partner simply made that choice without bringing me into the fold and I found out about it and she gave me the "It's my body" and none of your business bullshit I would absolutely feel betrayed.
If I had cancer and never told my wife, and she just woke up one day a widow, that would be shitty, your life's partner isn't supposed to be left out of anything with that gravity.
One night stands or short term relationships where the guy isn't really a responsible party, of course it's just up to the girl. Screw him....
But don't tell me a husband shoulnd't have input in something like family planning. Nina, Can you read? I said we decided to start a family..... Edit: Take 'you ' as general 'one'
So if you deliberately ended the life of a child because it was not convenient for you at the time. The womb of a mother is a dangerous place to an unborn child. She/he cannot vote for that.
But God can forgive to you for that murder. Only if you admit that it was wrong and you ask forgiveness. You can even see your aborted baby in heaven. If you are not interested, I am. I will look for him/her and I tell that I 'knew' your dad a little bit. I absolutely agree with you. I am a married mother of 2 and I could never, ever see myself getting an abortion without discussing it first with my hubby (although I can't have kids anymore). I think that would be a really disrespectful and selfish thing to do. I am totally pro-choice but I don't think the "my body, my choice" argument would fly in any setting where both parties are involved and in a stable relationship. of course a husband should have input!
that being said, not too many people who are in a committed relationship are going to run off and get an abortion if they become pregnant and not tell their partner. the circumstances that lead to an abortion being the best or only decision would have to be pretty extreme and it would be something they both would have to agree on. an INVOLVED father should have a say. My ex-fiance had an abortion without telling me. She also had serious medical issues including a recent diagnosis of MS. While I fully support her right to choose, I didn't support her right to choose without including me in the process. It was the beginning of the end. Well, more like the middle of the end. In another question, you said your wife went to community college and dropped out within the first year...hmmmmm.....
Anyway, yes, men have every reason to be upset. If you are married, this means both parties have agreed to a life long partnership, and it wouldnt be fair to the husband if one day the woman wakes up and decides to get an abortion...unlesss....she is unsure of who the father is! Spirituality is destroying an innocent life. Politically it is very bad for society. Personally, I only support abortion to save the life of the mother. i think its murder but its there pick if they want to murder a child and have that in there heads all there life well that them god bless I do not plan to have children, but abortion should be available, safe, and rare. Don't want a kid, have safe sex or no sex and stop trying to get out of taking responsibility for your actions. Abortion will not wipe the sin . politically i think it should be prevented Piggy,
I completely agree with your feelings on respect of our Life-Partner. My wife and I both are against abortion but if we were not, I would still expect such a decision to be discussed before such a thing was done. My wife and I have been very happily married for over 33 years and I believe that she is the greatest woman that I have ever met. I have a great love of people but she and I have a deep inner love that is far closer than any opther person I have ever been around. Have a great weekend and a wonderful week.
Your Friend,
Eds
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Hi Liz, Temptress, and Nina.
It is good to see all of you here!
. <<Abortion, spiritually, politically, and personally, what do you think?>>
Abortion is an absolute moral wrong, on account that there are no circumstances in which abortion can be considered the morally proper alternative.
<<Personally I think something like that would be a decision like any medical decision, ultimately left up to the one going through the procedure.>>
The one? No. When a woman becomes pregnant, there are two people going through the abortion procedure. Only one lives through the abortion procedure because, after all, the whole purpose of an abortion is to terminate the life of the unborn.
<<That being said, my wife of 23 years and I actually talked over the issue 17 years ago and though she was still in grad school (PharmD now) we decided to go ahead and start a family.
I never said this to my wife, but had she simply had an abortion without consulting me at all, I would have left her, no doubt in my mind. Not due to any opposition to abortion on my part.>>
Had an abortion taken place, your objection would have been your damaged pride, from being entirely left out of the decision, rather than any moral objection to abortion itself, or the loss of the life of the unborn. . . I have to tell you, that's not sitting well with me.
<< I understand the ramifications of unplanned parenthood. Two of my sisters had unplanned babies in the 70's they had a hard way to go.>>
Hence the Church's teachings as they pertain to chastity and abstinence until marriage.
<<But if my partner simply made that choice without bringing me into the fold and I found out about it and she gave me the "It's my body" and none of your business bullshit I would absolutely feel betrayed.>>
As well you should - because you would have been betrayed. It would have been your son or daughter than was destroyed. You, being the father, have every right - no, the duty - to defend your child's inalienable right life.
That were me in that situation, I would have freaked out big-time.
<<If I had cancer and never told my wife, and she just woke up one day a widow, that would be shitty, your life's partner isn't supposed to be left out of anything with that gravity.>>
I couldn't agree more. Again though, I'm a little troubled that you see this more in "legal" terms rather than moral terms.
<<One night stands or short term relationships where the guy isn't really a responsible party, of course it's just up to the girl. Screw him....>>
Everyone involved in the procreation of a child, regardless of the circumstances, has a duty to love and raise their son and/or daughter.
<<But don't tell me a husband shoulnd't have input in something like family planning.>>
Of course the husband has a say. Personally, I think the same number of women will always have abortions no matter the rules of regulations present - so making it illegal only kills more women who have illegal and dangerous surgical procedures instead of legal and safe versions.
It's a women's choice over her own body, and I don't think anyone else should have a say with what she does with her body except herself.
And as hard as this may be to believe - the best protection against abortion is safe sex, condoms and the pill. Until the religions realise that they are killing more babies by promoting illogical celibacy and anti-contraception, nothing will progress. Spiritually, it's up to the woman - including women who are dead-set against abortion. Politically and personally, I feel the same. Whether a woman decides to carry a pregnancy to term (or 'til miscarriage) is entirely up to her. Its HER body, and her life.
Edit: I would do what I want with MY body and MY life, Piggy :)
You may not agree, but that's the way I feel. You asked :P
By the way, I can't see how you came to the conclusion that I wouldn't tell him. I absolutely would. And then I'd do what I thought best. Spiritually - it is the murder of another person. We don't give life and we shouldn't take life. That is left to God bcoz only He can give life and take Life away.
Politically - the only reason abortion is being considered to be legalized is bcoz a featus can't vote. If a candidate tried to say that the elders in nursing homes who can't do nothing for themselves to be euthanized like pets that are too sick to get well, they would not even have a chance for a nomination as the whole senior nation would be out to rally but bcoz featus can't vote, oh well, off with their lives!
Personally - I am for pro-life, not only bcoz my God says not to kill but also why should the child pay for the sins/ mistakes of the parent? Give the child up for adoption their alot of p'ple who wish they could have children but don't and they would provide a safe and loving enviroment for them. Personally, I think any sane person could recognize that abortion solely for the purpose of birth control would be MURDER. BUt I also reason that in all other cases (Rape, incest, life of the mother, etc) the choice should be left up to the Mother. IF i am asked, and that's a big IF, I won't go poking my nose in where it doesn't belong, I will counsel other options besides abortion. But I do realize it is solely up to the Mother to make a choice in that case. Wow you've been holding some sort of non-existent resentment over this for years!
But I think abortion is a good thing, a decision, that you yourself believe, should be left up to the person in question. I don't believe in removing the option for everyone, and if you don't like it then don't do it! I agree with you in regards to one night stands. He doesn't need to know. The only problem is it takes two to tango, and really, it shouldn't be put up all on the woman. He should pay his own share for her getting pregnant! If I was impregnated by a guy (well most likely he wouldn't be a one night stand because I only have sex with boyfriends I really care about) I would tell him and ask him to help me. I would involve him, even if he needs to take responsibility.
But with your wife, that's an issue for you. Some people wouldn't mind it as much as you do. I would hope that if I ever married a guy and I personally wasn't ready to have a baby and he was, that he would understand it will take more out of my life to have the child than it would for him. Two people both need to be not "ready" since even if you want a baby then you never are ready, but that you want to have a baby and are up for the challenge.
But not telling you is probably not the best way to go. No marriage should have secrets of that nature. Plus I don't think Cancer and Abortions are on the same level, sorry. Either way, lying isn't good in a marriage, no matter the situation. But, if you still feel this strongly about something that happened years ago, why don't you bring it up with her? Seriously, like I said, withholding information or lying is not good, be open and communicative! I have mixed emotions. I can see your point but what if the husband was a religious nutjob and they were already parents on welfare. If the woman would have the choice taken away by telling her husband than she should not tell him. That is an extreme case, I know.
I was married at the time and my husband and I discussed my choices thoroughly. I found myself pregnant following a rape. He was supportive of me and my wishes.
The rape left me screwed up for many years and I lost the only man who ever loved me. The fact that he stood by me the whole time is an indication of the kind of man he was for me. Of course husbands should have a role in family planning. But you do realize that most women that choose abortion are unmarried and in their early 20s. These women, whether right or wrong, feel that they have no options, desperate.
If you want to take a biblical context to this issue the "it's my body" argument does not work, because husband and wife become one flesh in marriage. One flesh through love and respect. Just as you gave the example of not telling your spouse about cancer, a woman not telling her husband about an abortion would be the same kind of betrayal.
I have long considered myself a feminist but of I deeply believe that women deserve better than abortion. We have to change our society from within so that women do not have to choose at all. Where life and pregnancy are respected within the context of marriage or not. Do you realize that world wide a women is more likely to be murdered while pregnant. It breaks my heart. Besides cases of rape which make up such a small percent of abortions, or if the mother's health/life is in jeopardy women should:
Choose responsibility! Choose Life! I am conflicted about the abortion issue. Spiritually I think abortion is wrong and that it stains a society which practices it. A society that condones taking the life of an unborn child has some serious problems with how it values life. On the other hand, I think women will always have abortions and I want them to be safe. And politically I think abortion should not be a government issue. It really should be between a woman and her doctor. On the other hand, women who use abortion as birth control are scarred physically and emotionally. Then personally, I have two siblings who may have been aborted had that option been legally available to my mother at the time. My life would have lost two dimensions. I am so pleased to hear you and your wife discuss issues, that is the way it should be.And I am glad you feel the way you do.
You included spiritually about abortion.
So, I would like to give you some scripture pertaining to this.
JOB 31:15
"Did not He who made me in the womb make him and the same One 13) fashion us in the womb?"
PSALMS 139:13, 14
"For Thou didst form my inward parts; Thou didst weave me in my mothers womb"
14) "I will give thanks to Thee for I am fearfully and wonderfully made."
PSALMS 22:10
"Thou hast been my God from my mothers womb."
ECCLESIASTESS 11:5
"Just as you do not know the path of the wind and how bones are formed in the womb, so you do not know the activity of God that makes all things."
I faced this issue of abortion due to a possible exposure to radiation, I decided to take my changes and now have a very healthy 30 year old son.
My nephew's first marriage broke up due to her not discussing having an abortion, and of course he wanted a baby.
The saying is true..United you stand...divided you fall.
I do not believe it is a womens personal choice at all and most of all if she is married.
God bless you and your family. I am opposed to abortion in all three of your categories. The only time I would even think of condoning it is if the mother's life is truly in danger.
Also you mention not telling some people about abortion. In some states girls can now get abortions without telling their parents. If some school counselor took my daughter (if I had one) to get an abortion I would be hunting them down. I have to be honest I would be really tempted to kill the counselor. I know that is now how I, as a Christian, should act but sometimes it is harder to be a Christian than others. |
